Erin Pizzey took to internet community Reddit this past weekend to answer questions from users. She is known for her integral hand and tireless efforts in exposing domestic violence to the public consciousness throughout the 1970s by setting up one of the first battered women’s shelters and writing the groundbreaking book on the subject of domestic assault: Scream Quietly or the Neighbours Will Hear. In more recent years she has taken on neglect and abuse of men and boys as her cause and this is where the majority of her questions and answers focused.
Looking at it from a perspective of abuse and neglect, would you say that there is
a general attitude of neglect towards men today?
[…] My problem is that it’s men who’ve been victims of domestic violence, which is
largely ignored by society… and not only ignored, but ridiculed. Billions are spent
– billions I say – across the world for women’s refuges and virtually nothing for men.
And the one men’s refuge in Canada was so denigrated and despised by the Canadian
government, as you will see from our introduction, Earl committed suicide after he
was forced to sell his home and he lost everything.
The Earl she is referring to is Earl Silverman, a Canadian man who spent 20 years of his life crusading for better access to victim and emergency services for men and boys who are victims of abuse. Earl was a victim of abuse at the hands of a former spouse and dedicated his time, energy, and money towards creating a shelter specifically for male victims fleeing abusive situations.
For three years Silverman ran the Men’s Alternative Safe House out of his own home, taking in about 20 men and children over that period. Earl spent the entirety of his own savings to keep MASH running while trying, unsuccessfully, to convince the government to allocate funds for his and other projects directed at male victims. MASH was the only refuge of its kind in Canada.
After years of being unable to keep the shelter through his own funds and meagre private donations he was driven to financial ruin and forced to sell his home and, by association, give up his hopes for helping other victims. After selling his house he committed suicide on Friday, April 26, by hanging himself in the garage.
Silverman’s death appears to be caused entirely by what he and Prizzy have been fighting. He was a victim of abuse whose inability to find services eventually killed him.
Suicide is a predominantly male problem with rates in Canada making it the seventh highest cause of death for men here. In Canada just under one in every 5,000 men will kill themselves. In Yukon, Quebec, and Northwest Territories it is one in every 4,000 men. In Nunavut one in every 1,000 men will commit suicide.
There are many who would argue that men are incapable of experiencing abuse, physical or otherwise. Police statistics, for example, seem to tell a different story where only 20 percent of victims from domestic calls are male.
In fact, according to Statistics Canada, men are almost exactly as likely as women to be victims of domestic abuse:
“A similar proportion of men and women reported experiencing spousal violence
during the five years prior to the survey. Among men, 6.0% or about 585,000,
encountered spousal violence during this period, compared with 6.4% or
Perhaps the low rate of police calls for men in distress is not indicative of low rates of abused males but rather indicative of men being afraid to coming forward to police or attempt to escape their situation.
Male victims are being told from all sides that they are not victims; that statistics are so low they don’t matter; that if they were a real man they would just suck it up and take it; that women aren’t capable of delivering the same kinds of abuse that men can; that what they are experiencing is normal.
After hearing enough of that, it is no surprise that men would be afraid to step forward.
Even if they did manage to overcome everything they’ve ever been told, now that Canada’s only shelter for men is gone, where would they even go?
Ed Note: This story has been updated to include more reliable figures on suicide in Canada.
this is how feminism looks like
Uhm, yep. Did you know what isn’t mentioned in the article? That Erin Pizzey became and MRA because early feminists in Britain would not allow her to share the truth of parity in domestic violence, including murdering her dog?! Feminists are the EXACT reason we see domestic violence as a gendered crime. Patriarchal terrorism, duluth model, etc. Stop pretending they have no part in this. They created it.
Thanks for the downvote instead of actually giving me a rebuttal to a single thing I said! Oh wait, you can’t. It’s all true.
The world needs more women like you.
I agree with you and would like to know if you are apart of any social organizations such as MRA, feminism, egalitarianism, or anything else. Could we exchange ideas?
uhm, nope. “feminists are the exact reason we see domestic violence as a gendered crime”? nah, that would be because IT IS A GENDERED CRIME.
the “feminists cause domestic violence line” hahahaha you really are desperate aren’t you?
I agree with Stefanie. Feminists are drowning in their hatred for everything without a vagina, and refuse to see anything, even other members of the LBGT, as victims. A man could be shot dead defending his family from a burglar, and a feminist would say, “That’s his job, I’m sure he deserved it somehow.” Observe this blog: http://pretendbians.com/100-opposed-to-violence-100-committed-to-lesbians/ to see how a feminist acts to members of her own community.
I don’t have the article on hand, but one academic article I’ve read on this subject mentioned how the feminist construct of gendered violence ignores LGBT populations. It does this due to the fact that it makes lesbian relationships seem like a man-free utopia, and male violence is just mutual male battery (and the concept that men can’t be victims).
As someone who works in the LGBT community, I feel there is validity to this.
Wow & it looked like they were Doxxing people disagreeing with them!
Lol I’ve been reading your posts on your profile page johnnyderp. You are a world class troll, but some of your comments make it too obvious. Like the killing people if they commit rape. Top kek
This certainly IS exactly what feminism is all about…
The women who bullied this man into suicide probably had an extra cup of male tears that evening while smiling contently.
That’s really insightful. You must be one of those deep thinkers.
Well feminists have been working hard over the last 40 years to make sure there are no services for men and their children. It was feminists who posted death threats to Erin Pizzey, it was feminists who used false statistics to present domestic violence as a solely “women’s issue”, and it is feminists who still lobby governments, media and other public bodies to ensure the only form of DV we ever hear about is that inflicted by men upon women, rather than the abuse suffered by men.
So yeah, this is how feminism looks like.
In the last few months, the University of Toronto had their feminist group protest a Men’s Issue Group meeting by blocking the entrance and then pulling the fire alarm, not letting the people inside to be albe to leave the building. They claimed that the group is a hate group, when the Men’s Issue group invited all people to join in the conversation. They were topics about making sure that everyone has equal rights, like with the case here, abuse and a number of other issues. But instead of talking, they were silenced and met with hatred.
CAFE brought in a known misogynist and a man associated with promoting incest to talk about men’s rights, not equal rights.
I can understand why they felt the need to take greater action at the event: they tried to express their concerns, but CAFE and the Student’s Union didn’t care that they were bringing in someone who feels women are less than men.
You’re citing an example of a group of women fighting against misogyny. You’re also failing to recognize that feminism isn’t a big homogenous group and that a lot of other feminists voiced their concern or disapproval with the tactics of those present.
If you want to bring in examples where you feel that women have fought against men being recognized as victims of assault and deserving of federal aid, that is a completely valid argument and I’d like to be educated about it so I know who the real feminist allies are and aren’t.
You have hit a key point: feminism isn’t a big homogeneous group. That means you can both be right. Some feminists are anti-male, many (if not most) are not. So saying it is or isn’t a result of feminism is a bit pointless. The details matter.
As far as CAFE, you are talking about Warren Farrell. To say he is a known mysogynist is a circular argument because it is arguably the anit-male feminists who have claimed he is mysogynistic in the first place, hence the ones protesting are supporting the anti-male type of feminism. Warren was a huge champion of the 2nd wave of feminism in the 1970s and was even on the board of the National Organization of Women (NOW). It was his objections to the anti-male policies that NOW took that got him disliked by the anti-male type of feminists which later became accusations of misogyny as he started supporting men’s movements, similar to Earl Silverman in the article we are commenting on, even though Warren still helped with getting equal rights for women.
In particular, Warren’s rigorous statistical analysis on the pay gap showed the reasons that men made more and subsequently gave advice on women how to close that gap by making similar choices (more hours, more years, more dangerous work, more travel, and so on. He also showed that unmarried childless women make more than directly comparable men. These results irked some women’s groups even more. Yet none of that has to do with misogyny.
So, I think to be fair, we need to recognize that there are some bad men and some bad women, some bad feminists and some good feminists, some bad “masculinists” and some good ones, and a whole bunch of generalized accusations back and forth, made harder by labeling and name-calling, along with poor homework on the details by just about everyone.
Thank you for taking the time to respond so clearly. I always roll my eyes whenever someone calls Warren Farrel a misogynist, because it means they have no idea who the person is.
Yet there they are, talking about him as if they did.
Correction: he was on the New York board of NOW. MRAs get that mixed up a lot, be sure to correct them if you see any making that mistake.
I was just pointing out an example of when feminist took drastic messures to make sure another side isn’t heard. Protesting against another group is fine, but pulling the fire alarm and taking away their rights to gather and discussion, that is when they have crossed the line. I am alway open for a debate, but you need to have both sides to have the freedom to speek for that to happen.
Warren Farrell is the farthest thing from a misogynist that you could possibly get. He is the former (and only) male president of the National Organization for Women. As for the incest thing, it was a discussion in the 70’s based upon unpublished research that he was collecting. Your information is is simply wrong and the fact that people like you insist on pushing forth these blatant lies in the face of the actual facts shows just how ideologicially driven and closed minded you are.
Warren Farrel is the farther thing from a Misogynist that you could possibly get? The guy literally called Date Rape “exciting” in his seminal work. He was not the president of NOW, but a member of the board of directors. And I’ve read his incest article, or at least major extracts of it, and it’s fucking horrifying, “research” or not.
“CAFE brought in a known misogynist” Evidence?”
“they tried to express their concerns, but CAFE and the Student’s Union
didn’t care that they were bringing in someone who feels women are less
than men” Evidence?
“to talk about men’s rights, not equal rights.” Just as feminists are not talking about women’s rights but everyone’s rights? That’s not even moving goalposts, that’s setting the goalposts in Jupiter.
Now, as education, we have Erin Pizzey’s death threats
Pizzey described this harassment in an article she published in the Scotsman in 1999.
“Because of my opposition to the hijacking of the refuge
movement, I was a target for abuse. Anywhere I spoke there was a
contingent of screaming, heckling feminists waiting for me,” Pizzey
wrote. “Abusive telephone calls to my home, death threats and bomb
scares, became a way of living for me and for my family. Finally, the
bomb squad, asked me to have all my mail delivered to their head
We also have the activists who campaigned against gender neutral rape laws in India
“Activists argue that apart from situations where women hold positions of
statutory authority (like police officers, etc), in all other
situations, making the accused gender neutral means that complaints by
women can be met with counter-complaints to build pressure on them to
withdraw their complaint.
Or the multiple “woozles” in DV stats and reporting
“Dr. Richard Gelles of the University of Pennsylvania is one of the
best-known researchers in this field. Gelles recently published an
article in Family Court Review that exposes many of these woozles. [http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1744-1617.2007.00127.x] Here’s a sampling:
— “The Centers for Disease Control reports that domestic violence is the
leading cause of injury to women ages 15 to 44.” Interesting, but the
CDC never said anything like that.
— “According to the March of Dimes, battering during pregnancy is the
leading cause of birth defects.” That factoid certainly came as a
surprise to the March of Dimes.
— “Female perpetrators of partner homicide serve longer jail sentences
than males” Here’s the truth: the average prison sentence for male
offenders is 17 years, and for female murderers is 6 years.
“so I know who the real feminist allies are and aren’t.”
Ok, go ahead and use the no true scotsman fallacy to call these people not feminists allies. While you do that, those of us who have left feminism behind will become egalitarian humanists and fight for everyone.
That article refers to incest. I’ll do some research to nake sure about the context and veracity of those quotes, but you still haven’t offered evidence of misogyny and Farrell thinking women are less than men. So your link does nothing to support the bulk of your accusation .
I ask again where is the evidence of him thinking that wome are less than men or him being misogynistic?
I just read Adam’s rebuttal to the manboobz article. If that’s the best you have to defend the horrible protest at u of t, feminism is actually getting desperate
The speaker they had did not advocate incest. Your information is completely false. CAFE is not a men’s rights organization, they are a gender equality organization.
Many feminists do not see the difference between advocating misogyny and advocating gender equality.
Warren Farrell does not hate women, and there is no possible way you could defend that. He also does not, nor ever did, support incest. All you guys have is libel and slander, you never cared what Warren Farrell had to say at the event, I challenge you to find a single thing in his Toronto presentation that shows he hates women. He is the most reasonable soft spoken person on these issues.All these men and women protesting him were violent, abusive and at times criminal. They are the ones telling a man he is rape supporting scum for wanting to know more about why so many men commit suicide like his friends, or another feminist touted as some kind of hero by many feminists for singing Cry Me a River when male suicide came up and shouting expletives at people telling them to shut up and now acting like a wounded defenceless kitten surprised at all the negative response.
The best article on Warren Farrel’s incest research:
As for a known misogynist, where are your examples? Here is my article on the self-identified feminist protest:
And here is Warren Farrell’s entire speech at UofT on the boy crisis. Feel free to point out the misogyny within it. I’m interested to hear it:
How has feminism helped men?
Here are a few examples…
Hey, how’s that shelter you guys are building in his name going? (Also, I don’t read op-ed shit. Soweee!)
“Well feminists have been working hard over the last 40 years to make sure there are no services for men and their children.”
Uhm, yep. Completely fucking true. Did you know what isn’t mentioned in the article? That Erin Pizzey became and MRA because early feminists in Britain would not allow her to share the truth of parity in domestic violence, including murdering her dog?! Feminists are the EXACT reason we see domestic violence as a gendered crime. Patriarchal terrorism, duluth model, etc. Stop pretending they have no part in this. They created it.
Simmer down, you can have her. I misspoke when I said she was a feminist. Now that I’ve read a few articles, a few interviews and understand her position better, she’s just a jerk (MRM or Feminist.)
This one is particularly revelatory: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/battered-erin-pizzey-yes-a-bit-1272122.html
Yea what a jerk founding the first ever womans shelter. She didnt say what feminists wanted her to say, so now she’s a jerk and they chased her out of the country.
…Ya. That’s not the norm. And she’s not the norm either. But you seem to be the norm. Shouldn’t you be defending incest somewhere now that you know I’m not a willing convert?
“norm?” what are you talking about? I see you cant defend your accusation that she is a “jerk”.
And since no one is defending incest I’ll just call you a liar.
You can call me whatever you want, and the comment is self-explanatory.
The comment about her experiences not being normal. Do you think most feminists kill pets and drive people out of their movements? If so, we have some fundamental disagreements that aren’t going to be resolved on a message board. And I don’t agree with your views Warren Farrell. http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?11,95569,95569
I’ll post this again, because despite being “quote mining” (whatever that means) there isn’t really anything else to say that can excuse his words beyond a retraction or a statement immediately following them to the effect of “I’m saying nonsense things.”
“The father-daughter scene, ineluctably complicated by feelings of dominance and control, is not nearly so sanguine. Despite some advertisments, calling explicitly for positive female experiences, Farrell discovered that 85 percent of the daughters admitted to having negative attitudes toward their incest. Only 15 percent felt positive about the experience. On the other hand, statistics from the vantage of the fathers involved were almost the reverse — 60 percent positive, 20 percent negative. “Either men see these relationships differently,” comments Farrell, “or I am getting selective reporting from women.””
So…men report something different therefore women are lying? This article is kind of damning. His views on why income disparities between men and women exist aren’t logical.
Feel free to believe what you want, but Warren Farrell is misogynist in my view despite whatever professional affiliations he may have.
“So…men report something different therefore women are lying?”
Thats not what he said or implied. He is saying men and women see sex differently. You dont think that fathers who had sex with their daughters might have found the experience positive, while their daughters may not have? Is this somehow a controversial idea to you? Should the fathers having sex with their daughters find the experience just as negative as their daughters? Why then would they be doing it? This is like someone saying a rapist enjoyed the experience and their victim did not, and you calling them a misogynist for saying it.
“His views on why income disparities between men and women exist aren’t logical.
Why? Men and women dont behave the same. Women who are single, childless and under 30 earn more than men do, sometimes over 20% more depending on where you look. Look that up on google. Women who get married and have children are motivated to work LESS, men who get married and have kids are motivated to work MORE. The claim that women only make 70/80c to a mans dollar is a complete lie, because it does not account for job type, hours worked etc. There is absolutely no excuse to use the average income between men and women and claim discrimination. It is nothing but dishonesty from people who only want to see “sexism” as an explanation.
“The comment about her experiences not being normal. “–
Feminists were much more militant back in those days it seems, but it also seems like they havent necessarily stopped. Even recently we see what they have been doing in Toronto and we have people like Dr Wendy McElroy, studying female paedophiles she was also vilified, feminsits barged into her talks where victims were trying to speak of their experiences, for example.
But best put by feminist(!) Domestic Violence researcher Dr Murray Straus: (emphasis below mine)
—–“Although there are many causes of the persistence of the patriarchal dominance focus, I believe that the predominant cause has been the efforts of feminists to CONCEAL, DENY, and DISTORT the evidence. Moreover, these efforts include INTIMIDATION and THREATS, and have been carried out not only by feminist advocates and service providers, but also by feminist researchers who have let their ideological commitments overrule their scientific commitments.”
Regarding Warren Farrell, again, you refuse to actually put his words into context. Dr Wendy McElroy who I mentioned earlier wrote a paper about female pedophilia published in The Journal for The Royal Society of Medicine, saying something similar in 1991.
—–>”Was the abuse always negative:
Twelve per cent of the male victims said that the
sexual relationships with their mothers and other
female members of the family, had been wholly
beneficial and natural. Some of these relationships
continued into adult life.”
FROM — “Female sexual abuse of children: ‘the ultimate taboo'”
Does the Royal Society promote incest too? Does Dr Wendy McElroy support this behaviour? No, and you’d have to take her wildly out of context to say so. Note that she found 12% said the experiences were positive.
Ya, and tell me, what happened to Big Red? Oh ya, I know what happened to Big Red. I guess she had it coming.
I’ve had these conversations a million times before, and you can name a billion examples of Feminist Evil to which I’m sure the exponential amount of examples of the good feminism has down will even remotely count in comparison.
I took the time to read the articles to check the pages. MRA is full of hate and contempt for women, whereas Feminism has been a movement with the goal of making women the equals of men. Not a perfect movement, but one that has done much better things for the world than MRAs. This page is about the death of someone who shared similar goals with that of Feminism: to help people who are suffering. What happened to Earl Silverman has happened to many women before him. It does not mean that it should have happened to him, and it does not mean that it should happen to women again.
But this paged erupted into pointing the finger at Feminists. Doesn’t that strike you as odd?
Ya, and tell me, what happened to Big Red? Oh ya, I know what happened to Big Red. I guess she had it coming.”
Um what happened? Someone put her personal details online? As much as I dont support doxxing people, she decided to act like a bigot in a public venue shouting and screaming with cameras around. She then suddenly plays the victim as if she did nothing to piss anyone off.
This page is about the death of someone who shared similar goals with that of Feminism: to help people who are suffering. What happened to Earl Silverman has happened to many women before him. ”
So you still havent actually found out what Earl Silverman had to go through trying to get funding and support for the shelter, have you? Just keep burying your head in the sand.
Tell you what, here’s a nice video from someone that knew him that talks about what he had to go through and how feminism bears the responsibility.
“But this paged erupted into pointing the finger at Feminists. Doesn’t that strike you as odd?”
Since its feminists and feminist legislation that stopped Earl Silverman at every turn for years and years, pointing the finger at feminists and feminists seems rather obvious, not “odd”.
I like how you totally ignored Dr Wendy McElroy, Dr Murray Strauss or the fact that Dr McElroy wrote essentially the same thing Warren Farrell did.”
They threatened to rape and murder her. After posting her details online. But no big deal, cause you think she’s a bigot. Cause there is no difference between being callous and threatening someone’s life and safety repeatedly. You’re a hypocrite. People are people, no one deserves that treatment.
Yes, I do know what he went through. I read the articles, I saw the newspapers. Do you know what women went through to get shelters and recognition for their abuse even being abuse? But I guess men get beat too (in much lower rates, if you looks at the dozens of non-MRA revisionist studies, that is), and if men can’t have it, no one can have it. News flash: women are not putting through legislation to oppress the 15% of men reported to be abused, they’re putting through legislation that helps the 85%. Maybe instead of complaining on the internet you should have been helping the 15%.
I have no idea who the people you’re talking about are. None. Nor why you’re referring the Royal Society of Medicine. I doubt the RSM supports incest, but considering that this is the criteria to become a member, I’m pretty sure they have some creepy assholes among the ranks: http://www.rsm.ac.uk/membersh/joining.php
And why does a professional organizational affiliation make someones views more or less valid? I personally know some doctors in the UK who are TERRIBLE people and shouldn’t be practicing medicine. the MD at the end doesn’t make them better people, or more important representatives of a philosophical and sociological issue. That’s pretty classist.
And I said Warren Farrell was gross and creepy and misogynistic because of interviews read with him, public documents where he addressed concerns raised against him. IE I think he’s a jerk because I think he sounds like a jerk.
You’re bringing in random bullshit facts and being a hypocrite. Doxing is bad *except* for this chick. Earl suffered exclusively at the hands of feminists, despite the majority of the leaders in parliament and in the senate being men (and mostly hand-picked by Harper). Are you even Canadian? Do you not understand how that works? Do you think that we have a secret Feminist legion? They don’t have magic law-making powers that only the forces of GOOD& REAL MEN (TM) can fight, sorry. If we did, there’d be a whole lot less poverty and inequality.
I can see you don’t know anything about Feminism, Feminist history and don’t care to get any information that isn’t MRA sanctioned. Maybe you should do some homework before trying to prove that Feminists are the cause of all evil. Like what feminist organizations exist, what are the main divisive issues and how does that effect Feminism as an ideology.
Done with you and your weird, hypocritical, uninformed ramblings. Use your time better: go out and help your fellow men. Do your leg work too and stop acting like Feminists should be doing it for you (or else they’re against you.)
“They threatened to rape and murder her. After posting her details online. But no big deal, cause you think she’s a bigot. Cause there is no difference between being callous and threatening someone’s life and safety repeatedly. You’re a hypocrite. People are people, no one deserves that treatment”
Some trolls did. And Im sure you’re one of these people that calls a “i hope someone murders you” is a death threat.
The problem isnt that you condem the actions of these individuals, the MRM does as well. What shows your position to have no moral high ground is that you and those other feminists have not called her out as a hateful bigot that she clearly is. If this was the other way around, you would be chomping at the bit for the guys head on a platter.
“Yes, I do know what he went through.”
Celarly you dont and still dont since you still dont understand how feminism and feminists factor into this,
I read the articles
You mean, you’ve read feminist articles.
Do you know what women went through to get shelters and recognition for their abuse even being abuse?
Do you know that you called the woman who set up the first womans shelter, Erin Pizzy, a “jerk”? I think she’d know more than anyone, don’t you think?
But I guess men get beat too (in much lower rates, if you looks at the dozens of non-MRA revisionist studies, that is)
No, not in “MRA Studies”, in EVER study that has ever asked the questions of both genders. Remember when I quoted Dr Murray Strauss about how feminsist lie, distort, threaten and intimidate? Well he is a feminist, I dont know if you noticed that. There’s even a recent study that came out showing the same thing.
QUOTE: “The most comprehensive review of the scholarly domestic violence research literature ever conducted concludes, among other things, that women perpetrate physical and emotional abuse, as well as engage in control behaviors, at comparable rates to men”
You say “15%” of men, yet even government studies show at least 40%. Among men, 6.0% or about 585,000, encountered spousal violence during the period they studied, compared with 6.4% or 601,000 women.
Ya, those threats totally weren’t serious and she totally knew they weren’t because. So, not an issue. Totes.
Also, Erin opened the first women’s shelter? Your ignorant is showing:
And when did I try and deny that there are male victims of domestic violence?
If you want to address what I’m actually saying, please respond. And I just finished watching that video. You know who appoints the people who wronged Earl? Stephen Harper. So, maybe think about that. Guy gives 0 shits about most people, and is definitely not a feminist. Know who runs the show in Alberta? Conservatives. Not Feminists.
————-“Ya, those threats totally weren’t serious and she totally knew they weren’t because. So, not an issue. Totes.”
I didnt say all of them weren’t. But it is a fact that feminists call comments like “I hope you get raped” a threat. Interestingly many of these same people seem to like the phrase “go die in a fire” , while apparently not seeing that by the same logic they just threatened someone.
I like how you still ignore the fact that the problem here is not feminists condemning the trolls who doxxed her and sent her nasty messages, its the fact that they have not called HER a hateful bigot and said she doesnt speak for feminists and that she gives them a bad name. Why not?
Also, Erin opened the first women’s shelter? Your ignorant is showing:
Ah yes okay so there was one somewhere else in the world. YOu did however ignore the VERY NEXT SENTENCE ” Chiswick Women’s Aid, the first widely known shelter for battered women was opened in London, in 1971 by Erin Pizzey.”
So again, are you going to claim that you know more than Erin Pizzey, who doesnt agree with you?
And when did I try and deny that there are male victims of domestic violence?
Well lets see you handwaved all studies that dont agree with you as “MRA studies”, even apparenlty the government studies that show at least 40% of victims being men, not 15%. So, yes you literally “deny” male victims. I see you even ignored the recent study that again, surprise surprise found men and women abuse each other at equal rates in relationships.
You know who appoints the people who wronged Earl? Stephen Harper. So, maybe think about that. Guy gives 0 shits about most people, and is definitely not a feminist. Know who runs the show in Alberta? Conservatives. Not Feminists.
So you managed to watch the entire video and want to blame the actions of feminists on a man, not the system, not feminist theory like the Duluth Model, not the years of distorted dishonest statistics and studies that intentionally exclude male victims, not feminists that conceal, mislead, threaten and intimidate. You clearly did not watch the video or was too busy closing your eyes and covering your ears for anything to sink in. At some point you need to take some responsibility like a grown up
Gosh, I guess I’ll just follow your sterling example, Ed. 🙂
Gosh, I guess I’ll just follow your sterling example, Ed. 🙂
So is this an admission that you refuse to defend the fact that feminists when confronted with a hateful bigot in their own ranks, wont actually condemn them as a hateful bigot?
Is this an admission that you dont want to deal with your pathetic knowing of domestic violence? Like I said, even government studies have the figure at least 40%, you said only 15% which means you’re literally denying male victims exist and have called every study that doesnt say what they want it to say, even government studies, “MRA studies”,.
Yes Ed, it totally means that. Everything you just said and everything you didn’t say. You’re a real grownup and I’m going to be just like you when I grow up.
I wonder why people like you even bother in discussions like this when you clearly have no intention in discussing the facts.
Yup. You’re right about everything, Ed.
You know this isnt an argument right?
Have you accepted than male victims of DV are more than 15% yet, and that its not “MRA studies” that show there are?
No, she didn’t. She founded the 2nd MODERN woman’s shelter. I take this to mean one that is actually government funded in part or recognized legally as such. Women’s shelters and sanctuaries have existed for centuries.
We’ve already been over this. Its weird how you only reply now and weird how you apparently ignored the response in another post where I responded to this.
Still dont see why she’s a “jerk” considering all she did for women, and her experiences and opinion can be thrown out. All she has done as far as I can see is say btw women are violent as well.
Funny but in all reality pushing it as a gendered crime, insisting on it being one way, supporting the Duluth Model, is in effect blocking services for men. The Duluth Model, was a choice to distort.
It WAS feminists who sent death threats to Erin Pizzey. No citation is needed there. The police took them seriously enough to try to get her to leave the country.
Meaning while you’re off making false claims about Warren Farrel?
Anyone else taste the palpable irony?
This is where I got my info: http://manboobz.com/2012/11/21/what-mens-rights-guru-warren-farrell-actually-said-about-the-allegedly-positive-aspects-of-incest-note-its-even-more-repugnant-than-that-sounds/
Again, the article refers to incest. You claimed he was misogynist and thought women were less than men. Now you’re trying to use the incest angle to divert attention, are you familiar with the term red herring?
Also you haven’t explained why you implied that talking about men’s rights instead of equal rights is a bad thing when feminism has been about women’s rights for several decades.
You’re weird and creepy. How is his pro father daughter incest not misogynist? Please don’t talk to me anymore.
He isnt pro father daughter incest so your argument is moot, and btw it also wouldn’t necessarily be “misogyny” either even if he was (which he isnt)., Your logic is broken.
Still waiting for you to provide evidence for these claims, or to retract them:
“CAFE brought in a known misogynist and a man associated with promoting incest”
“CAFE and the Student’s
Union didn’t care that they were bringing in someone who feels women
are less than men.”
“You’re citing an example of a group of women fighting against
You won’t, because you don’t have any. You’re just parroting what others have told you and you accepted without even checking.
This is a very good opportunity to show others how feminists run scared when asked for evidence.
Always, always demand evidence. Most of the arguments here are appeals to emotion and baseless assertions. The word they fear the most is not patriarchy, is EVIDENCE.
Always, ALWAYS demand evidence from them.
If Warren is a misogynist then misogynists must be some of the nicest people on the planet.
Depends on what your definition of nice is, but sure!
Sorry, I’m new to posting and didn’t know I was making you wait! My most sincere apologies!
Manboobs is not a source, its a quote-mining site that provides commentary that you want to hear.
Look at the first 2 quotes they provide for example. Just ignore Manboobs rhetoric and read the actual text. What is incorrect about what is written there? Especially the part about women being more willing to take on sexual guilt.
He also said 6 out of 200 were positive. The idea that incest can be considered positive experience by those that suffered it is not really that controversial and I’ve seen that expressed in journal articles in real papers on sexual abuse.
Stop relying on Manboobs to do your thinking for you.
Dude, do your research you can find the quotes elsewhere. Saying any amount of incest between father and daughter is wrong. That shit is so fucked up and I’m done talking to you about this. If you want to defend either the person or the acts, you can do it to someone else.
I didnt say the article ManBoobs is quoting isnt real, Im saying he is quote-mining. He is also spinning the quotes. Why would he have quoted things where there is nothing wrong with them? Do women not take on more “sexual guilt” than men do?
He isnt saying that father daughter incest is okay, he has said so when questioned about it. In a scientific study when people report that it was a positive experience you document that. Sorry reality doesnt fit what you’d like it to be, but the fact is a very small % of cases of incest those who were involved said it was positive. That doesnt mean you agree with incest just because you documented this.
His overall point was that saying peoples lives were over and irreparably damaged was not a productive tactic for therapy for those who had been involved with incest with their family members, and that it could even cause more problems.
Also, you’re crazy aggressive. You need to tone it down. I’m not attacking you, I’m speaking against someone who I don’t believe in and who is not a great person.
Hey, i gave you some evidence, where you at?
So Erin Pizzey is a liar, is she?
The Erin Pizzey threats, which we have no evidence existed, no evidence came from feminists if they did exist, no evidence were over her interest in men’s shelters, and no evidence are reflective of a broader trend in feminism. Nice citation, there.
Attacking people who are the cause of the issues.
A man hitting a woman is a terrible crime. A woman hitting a man is a laughing stock. People see cartoon of a woman hitting her husband with a rolling pin or a frying pan and laugh. Men in western society are nothing but wallets to be picked clean, and are disposable.
It’s similar to some people thinking prison rape jokes are funny. Nuh-unh. Physical and sexual violence are serious issues, across the gender spectrum. We need to work together to challenge these harmful attitudes.
“It’s similar to some people thinking prison rape jokes are funny.”
I disagree. Prison rape jokes can be funny, just as DV jokes can, in the right context.
The issue here is that people consider *actual* DV to be funny when it happens to men.
Again, I don’t think that’s an issue. People speaking emphatically about wishing horrible people harm isn’t harmful. A bigger issues would be underfunding prisons and stuffing them to the gills with non-violent offenders, giving them nothing to do, little supervision, then using the resulting rape as a control tool.
No dude, it’s the fact that you can watch studies where actors play out a scene in public with aggressive behavior.
One is a dude on woman, where it gets stopped immediately and the actor has to pull out all the stops to say it was just a test to see what would happen in an effort to prevent white knights from kicking his ass.
The other is female on male, and everyone watches on and laughs and does nothing to help the man. Some even step in and pick on the man, too.
The SINCERELY think that ACTUAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE on a man IS FUNNY.
“Male victims are being told from all sides that they are not victims; that women aren’t capable of delivering the same kinds of abuse that men can”
That’s true. But one thing that is often omitted in articles such as this one is that statistically there are more men who commit violent acts and their first target isn’t women, but other men.
We need more preventative measures to keep people safe from any kind of violent acts, regardless of what gender the victim is. And we need safe houses for both men and women.
Here was a man who only wanted to help others, and Canada failed to help him.
Really makes me ashamed to be Canadian right now. I can’t believe I’d never heard of this man before his death.
You’re a feminist, stop with the faux empathy. And all feminists are the same because they all follow the same feminist religion. Are you a Baptist feminist or a Methodist feminist?
Here’s the feminist faith in a nutshell, from with all feminism can be explained.
Patriarchy. Which is a system of male dominance, masculinity which is toxic of course, maleness, a position of power which all men enjoy and exploit women, manliness which is evil, rape culture and on and on it goes. All evil comes from the patriarchy. Man. Maleness. Masculinity. That’s the devil.
Next we have feminism. Women have always been oppressed by the patriarchy from which all evil flows. Women are innocent and good. If a woman is violent her violence stems from trying to emulate the power of the patriarchy. Feminine is always good. Woman is good. Femaleness is good. That would be the divinity.
Man = devil. Woman = divinity.
By that rationale, the West Boro baptists are representative of all of Christianity.
Most things cannot be defined in a nutshell, and to do so is to do yourself a disservice. I do feel feminism is not the panacea many make it out to be, but I also don’t try to squeeze it into a tight little package (that is also what the radicals within feminism do, with themselves and in regards to the MHRM. You don’t want to be like them, do you?)
It’s not just Westboro that is fighting to deny the LGBT community equality, it’s not Just Westboro that is fighting to deny reproductive rights…
Westboro is just terribly vocal about what the other fundamentalist cults think but do not say…..
I was going to defend you here until I saw your disgusting comments about Warren Farrell. You know nothing about the man, he’s an admirable and upstanding person that feminists and men’s rights activists should both look up to as a role model.
Thank you for writing about this.
yawn @ MRAs using this as an opportunity to bash feminism. how many of you have actually, you know, DONE ANYTHING about men’s rights or shelters?
Please present evidence indicating that the only way someone gets to complain about an ideology they disagree with is if they’ve done something about the problem.
As someone who has tried to raise awareness and open a discussion at local government offices – quite a bit. You know what happens?
Rolled eyes or a wave of the hand.
Not to say that there aren’t some shitty MRAs that bash feminism, even the feminists who support men fully – but feminism isn’t all sunshine and roses.
Just stating in public that violence against men is ALSO a problem will normally get you ridiculed and ostracized normally because of small minded people like you who haven’t actually had to take up the fight.
Do read the article again. This is what happens when you try and advocate for men and boys. When feminism is the stone blockade at every turn, you dont even need to bash feminism directly, all you need to do is tell the story. This story itself is a indictment of what feminism has done.
Did you read the article Kaitlyn? I think it is pretty self explanatory. Every move forwards to helping men and boys of domestic abuse has been blocked by the Biased public opinion and the Feminist Movement.. Little ground has been gained and next to no support from the public.
How about try being a Humanist for a change.
Except that the flaws and biases embraced by feminism have a great deal to do with Earl Silverman’s suicide. If this shelter served women, instead of men, it would have received funding. This problem, and Earl’s suicide, is because of feminism. This is what feminism looks like.
if you don’t like what feminism has become, then change feminism or stop identifying as feminist.
He isn’t using the word Feminist that way. He’s using Feminist to mean “women who actively try put men at a societal disadvantage and prevent men from solving their own problems”
That’s not what Feminism means either, so my point stands.
Feminism is a paranoid leftist ideology that blames men for everything, just so you’re clear on that.
So you admit you are just making up a new definition?
What I see when I look at gender issues is that there are a few different types of people who identify as feminist. There are people who seem to think that since women have been so heavily oppressed in past that now roles should be reversed. There are the people who laugh at the guy who was kidnapped and raped by four women but would think it’s absolutely deplorable if four men kidnapped and raped a woman. There are people who genuinely want gender equality in all aspects and want there to be resources like safe houses available to men and women. The term feminism has been used to label a very wide variety of philosophies, and as such I refuse to align myself with a label. I am in support of equality to people of all gender identities, all sexual orientations, all races etc. etc. We’re all human in the end. As long as we’re focusing on men’s rights and women’s rights, we’re completely missing the point. We need to focus on human rights.
Erin “Pizzay” (it’s spelled Pizzey) has never been a feminist and doesn’t have anything nice to say about them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey
“Pizzey says it was after death threats against her, her children, her grandchildren, and the killing of her dog, all of which she states were perpetrated by militant feminists, that she left England for North America.”
You should read your own sources, her experiences are clearly not the norm. “Pizzey said that militant feminists—with the collusion of Labour’s leading women—hijacked her cause and used it to try to demonise all men, not only in Britain, but internationally”.
Being a survivor of abuse from your mother and being threatened with violence by a radical group when you threaten to go to the cops to report a planned bombing, and literally being “kicked out” of feminism by militant feminists isn’t the norm. Totally legit reasons to say you don’t want to be associated with the movement.
Do you associate with the MRAs who publish personal information of women, use death threats, rape threats and threats against women’s families as a viable tactic? I should hope not.
I hope you identify more with Lovisa and other women who are feminists and are fighting for the rights of men and women everywhere and who do identify with Feminism.
“and literally being “kicked out” of feminism by militant feminists isn’t the norm.”
Nevertheless this contradicts your earlier claim that Erin Pizzey is a feminist.
She wasn’t merely kicked out of feminism, she never was one. She describes making immediate associations between feminism and Maoism due to her growing up in a diplomatic family. She immediately viewed feminism as anti-family and tried to reason with them to no avail. And she eventually got kicked out of her group because they were planning (and later carried out) a terrorist bombing on a women’s clothing store in London. How this gives you the right to claim her as a feminist, I haven’t got the faintest idea. She is an outspoken critic of feminism and doesn’t mince words about it.
Kind of like the distinction between the average religious person and extremists. The distinction needs to be made, no matter what you think about either.
“Kind of like the distinction between the average religious person and extremists.”
It doesn’t matter, because Pizzey sees all of feminism as a broken ideology. That it was the militant ones who attacked her does not mean that she automatically agrees with the garden variety, it only highlights just how much animosity there is between herself and the feminist camp.
Not true, sorry. Feminism is ‘like that’ by nature. It relies on rewriting history to make women an oppressed class and men an oppressor class. It relies on rape and domestic violence as gendered crimes. It relies on giving men all the rights men have with no responsibilities. It relies on telling people we live in culture that ‘teaches men to rape’. Feminism may not =/= misandry, but it sure is based in it.
The radicals are a magnifiying glass for problems that permeate all feminism. That’s it.
This: ” you’d rather blame it’s failure on people who had nothing to do with it.”
Some would argue it isn’t the place of government either. Taking on a project like this, knowing there isn’t much funding available, is a challenge. The key is community support, fundraising, etc. It’s not the fault of government not coughing out more money. If they were to fund every good cause we would be bankrupt in no time!
Just because the government isn’t funding it, doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s a worthwhile cause either. It’s about people finally stepping up and supporting what THEY see are worthwhile causes.
Not saying I don’t feel for this guy. It’s a truly tragic story… but I think people too often begin to find something to blame: Feminism, Government, etc. when really it’s just poor circumstance.
When women’s emergency shelters get approximately 71% of their funding from provincial and municipal governments (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2011001/article/11495-eng.htm ctrl+f “funding”), to say it’s not the government’s fault for not “coughing out more money” is disingenuous at best and outright insulting at worst.
It seems you haven’t done any research on the issue, and instead just go by “feelings”. Well, congratulations, you’re a fine example of the product of postmodernist education.
“Among the 593 shelters that offered services to abused women in 2009/2010, 47 or 8% also admitted adult men, usually to emergency shelters or safe home networks.”
I did not know this, so that link was good to show that some are at least being accommodating when faced with men in need of services as well.
Now show us a list of all of the mens shelters asking for funding in every county.
The government is not going to hand over money to someone who just says they are helping people in their house. There is a process and an application to make sure it is not just some person trying to get free money.
And what are you doing to help male survivors of intimate partner violence? Shelters did not pop up magically because the government decided it was the right thing to do. Funding is a challenge to get, and it take a lot of hours and work and dedication. Women cannot set up services for men on their own, they need help and they especially cannot presume to know what will work for male survivors of intimate partner violence.
If you don’t like that there are a lack of services for male survivors, welcome to the feminist club, and help us do something about it.
The last man who decided to help you do something about it just killed himself. As someone who suffered from domestic abuse, Earl wanted more than anything to help other victims like himself. This article outlines the fruits of his efforts.
I’ll help you do something about it as long as you show me something you’re doing I can help with
“Shelters did not pop up magically”
You’re right. The very first shelters were set up Erin Pizzey, who tried just as hard to open shelters for men. How did she manage to open up shelters for women but not for men if she’s actually part of the Men’s Human Rights movement? Could it possibly be due to the actual opposition that she faced while trying to help men, but not when trying to help women?
Do please re-read the article you are posting on. This is what happens when you try and set up services for men. The guy was so dejected with the lack of support in the years that he put everything he had into it drove him to suicide. Erin Pizzey should know what its like to set up support for domestic violence victims, since she set up the worlds first shelters for women. She is the one that is quoted in the article and she also says that feminists were completely against the idea of any help and support for men and drove her out the country with death threats, but Im sure she doesnt really know anything, I suppose.
Feminism hasn’t “become” anything. It’s the same thing now that it was at the beginning. A fraud.
Actually Erin Pizzey has fiercely criticized feminism, and is an editor of A Voice For Men, a site known also for staunch opposition to feminism. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1d7toq/hi_im_erin_pizzey_founder_of_the_first_womens/c9nsush
What is the basis for your accusation:
>>>You’re the one who needs to stop using the word Feminist to mean “Women I Hate Who Don’t Pay Enough Attention To Me.”
Where have I delineated this definition?
How about you can have Erin all to yourself and WE BOTH stop using Feminism as a word that defines women who hate you?
You can have Erin Pizzey as a rep for the Men’s Rights. After doing some research, I don’t want her. It seems everyone is to blame for the ill in her life, and feminists are just some of her scapegoats.
Here’s how I see it: I’m a Feminist, it’s important for me that all victims of abuse, assault and rape be able to access care and shelter. What other issue is there that you’re trying to address?
Here’s how I see it: I’m a Feminist, it’s important for me that all victims of abuse, assault and rape be able to access care and shelter. What other issue is there that you’re trying to address?
You mean… so long as they are female, apparently.
Yes. All of those things, Ed. All of the things I didn’t say are exactly what I meant.
Well you claim on 15% of men are abused, when even government studies put the figure at 40%, so you clearly do deny male victims exist and dont care.
You got it, that’s exactly what I said.
LOL. You literally told me male victims only amount to 15% and characterised all the studies showing it was more as “MRA studies”.
Its always funny when you guys are reduced to actually denying your own words.
“…15% of men reported to be abused…. Maybe instead of complaining on the internet you should have been helping the 15%.”
You’re literally talking like you know something. Have you even seen the CDCs report? According to it, INCLUDING so-called “envelopment” rape (I say that because, I mean, why distinguish between different types of rape?) woman have “got men beat” so to speak 4:1. So what kind of violence are you talking about here? We’re also 4 times as likely to be victims of stalking and harassment. If you’re talking strictly in terms of physical violence, yes, the CDC’s report does report the rates as about 1.2:1 (with men still in the lead.)
But the IPV related impact is over triple in women. That means of the total number of assault victims, woman comprise over triple the numbers of men to have experienced “any of the following: being fearful, concerned for safety, any PTSD symptoms, need for health care, injury, contacted a crisis hotline, need for housing services, need for victim’s advocate services, need for legal services, missed at least one day of work or school. For those who reported being raped it also includes having contracted a sexually transmitted disease.”
So if we’re going only on the CDCs report, sorry, I was wrong. “Physical aggression” is the same, but the people who are raped, battered, stalked and harrassed are women 75% of the time. They therefore need 3x more help than men and 3x the resources.
But you know what? At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter in this discussion. Because according to you, because I quoted a different study with different figures, I’m claiming that there are no male victims of domestic assault. Which means you’re an idiot with a very small amount of reading comprehension skills and a whole lot of hate for any woman identifying as a Feminist.
I also hate to burst your bubble, but one woman who claims to be a friend of the deceased (who is MRA) claiming to have insider knowledge on his life, death and findings doesn’t really do a lot to convince me. Don’t you think that if he wanted to make a statement about his cause, he would have made it? Sent it to the press, left documents in someone’s hands to be revealed after his death? Or is that another Feminist conspiracy to hush him up.
If you’d actually bothered to properly read my comments, I also said:
“If you want to bring in examples where you feel that women have fought against men being recognized as victims of assault and deserving of federal aid, that is a completely valid argument and I’d like to be educated about it so I know who the real feminist allies are and aren’t.”
Being flippant doesn’t work, so I’m telling you point blank: leave me alone. I will not respond to you. You’re free to post your nonsense, but unless YOU want to go back on your statement that CDC has got the rights numbers, you look a little foolish.
“You’re literally talking like you know something. Have you even seen the CDCs report? According to it, INCLUDING so-called “envelopment” rape (I say that because, I mean, why distinguish between different types of rape?) woman have “got men beat” so to speak 4:1. ”
Firstly we’re talking about domestic violence, not just sexual violence. Is this changing the subject intentional?
Secondly, you’re still wrong because 12 month figures are more reliable. Why else do you think they are so different? Were women raping men particularly hard that year? The 12 month stats are equal.
So why are 12 month stats more reliable?… Lets see…
QUOTE: “6% of men with documented cases of sexual abuse considered their early childhood experiences sexual abuse, compared with 64% of women with documented cases of sexual abuse. These gender differences may reflect inadequate measurement techniques or an unwillingness on the part of men to disclose this information (Widom and Morris 1997).”
— Accuracy of Adult Recollections of Childhood Victimization: Part 2; Childhood Sexual Abuse
So only 16% of men with DOCUMENTED case histories of child sexual abuse disclosed that abuse on a survey compared with 65% of women. So thats already 4 times higher.
Because according to you, because I quoted a different study with different figures, I’m claiming that there are no male victims of domestic assault.-
I didnt say you said there were no male victims of domestic violence, I said you said there was only 15% and claimed all the studies showing otherwise are “MRA Studies. Therefore you are denying the existence of the rest of them.
Even government studies are not good enough for you:
QUOTE: “Among men, 6.0% or about 585,000, encountered spousal violence during this period, compared with 6.4% or 601,000 women.”
And the most recent…
QUOTE: “The most comprehensive review of the scholarly domestic violence research literature ever conducted concludes, among other things, that women perpetrate physical and emotional abuse, and engage in control behaviors, at comparable rates to men. The study was directed by the Editor-in-Chief of Partner Abuse, a Springer Publishing Company journal.”
“men and women perpetrate physical and non-physical forms of abuse at comparable rates, most domestic violence is mutual, women are as controlling as men, domestic violence by men and women is correlated with essentially the same risk factors, and male and female perpetrators are motivated for similar reasons.”
“Unprecedented Domestic Violence Study Affirms Need to Recognize Male Victims”
Had he actually consulted with non profit managers who know how to fund raise or how to follow the regulations that shelters have to follow in order to be government backed he might have received funding also.
Feminists did not stop mostly male leaders from giving him funding.
Feminism is now an ego trip for women under the facade of oppression and inequality. Now there are legitimate issues like in the middle east and here in Canada but things have spiralled into a stomach sickening concoction with magazines like Cosmos and women thinking they are queen of Oh Shit! like they have special rights over ho hum looking Joe Blow over there. They have a deer in headlights look when I don’t give them the passenger seat because they’ve been hogging it the whole time or not hold the door for them. But I can’t blame them completely. If men had more inhibitions and stopped putting the pussy on the pedestal, they would be giving women less leverage.
Remember, Lucifer was kicked out of heaven for ego. Now take that ego and give it to someone and they will tear you up.
Please do not imply that “Cosmo” has anything to do with Feminism! It most certainly does not.
It was a joke.
It was, wasn’t it?
This is absolutely disgusting, and tragic.
It is a fallacy to say that men cannot be victims. If you think that, you’re playing into the hands of the same system that you decry for sexism and victim-blaming that targets women.
Anyone can be a victim.
That this man’s life was -ruined-, and eventually ended, because of his legitimate and necessary efforts disturbs the hell out of me. No, there aren’t enough resources for abused women. But there are almost NO resources for abused men. Men can be victimized. It doesn’t make them any “less” than a woman who is victimized. And plenty of those male victims become victims because of the acts of women.
Women are not immune to being violent pieces of crap, petty jerks who discriminate against others, including men, and undermine their work.
I am a feminist, and this disgusts me. If you consider yourself a feminist, but you take issue with this man’s work (the good that he did do and tried to do), you need to stop and reexamine your ideologies and assumptions. The fact that sexism and undermining targeting women exists does not mean that it doesn’t exist for men. If you seek equality, you must seek it in ALL areas. The goal is to attain equality in places where it is lacking. That doesn’t mean ignoring and undermining the problems and issues in other areas. Acting as if men can’t be victimized or discriminated against isn’t only wrong, and illogical. It completely undermines anything you may have to say on the subject involving women.
Don’t be hypocrites.
Don’t be like the people you claim to fight against.
I also thank you for this. I only heard of Earl this week and that in itself is a sad fact.
Any woman, man or authority figure who uses the phrase “man up” or “be a man” to a man complaining about being physically assaulted by a female or domestically abused by a female are a huge factor in this world problem.
We must up against ANY and ALL physical and domestic violence against ANYONE.
Thank you for giving boys and men a fair shake.
The official statistics for DV are so skewed as to be completely irrelevant. Everyone, and I mean everyone knows that if a call of DV is received by the police, when they show up the man will be arrested. He could be beaten bloody and he will still be arrested, and everyone knows it. A man could be dead, lying in a pool of blood and the woman could still be set free by claiming she was abused. And once again everyone knows it.
Let’s all stop pretending that the statistics are worth a flying damn. And let’s stop pretending that the law, is in any way equal.
Or worse, as in Vancouver, the police arrive at the door, find a man who doesn’t speak english beat him up badly enough to put him in the hospital, then find out the call was actually from the downstairs apartment….
As an MRA who doesn’t have a problem with all feminists, i’d like to thank this site for raising awareness of the lack of men’s shelters and Earl’s suicide, and apologize for the MRA’s making angry comments in here. The thing with the MHRM is that many of us believe that feminists – by framing the gender debate in terms of “patriarchy”, “male privilege” and “male power” – ended up helping the (false) notion that men dominate and have no issues of their own, thus making it harder to open up male shelters. And there are also many feminist organizations that oppose things they should support if they are truly for equality (such as NOW opposing shared-custody being the default).
MRA’s in general aren’t angry with feminists because we hate women or because we oppose equality or promote “patriarchy”, many of us are angry at feminists because they feel betrayed and alienated by the feminist movement. I for one thank you for helping raise awareness of Earl’s and Erin’s struggle to help victims of abuse. Let’s hope Earl didn’t suffer and die in vain.
But because men have written history for centuries and women just became equal in the eyes of the law recently (except the ERA), it is hard to accept that men don’t have resources to help themselves out of these situations. They always did before. What changed? Do you think women committing domestic violence is new phenomena? Who holds the purse in each situation? What is the most valued in a capitalist society?
Well this is interesting. Karen Straughan has an interesting bit of historical info on how male victims of domestic violence were treated in traditional pre-feminist society.
Lol… I think miss MHRA could’ve worded that a little better. Here’s the proof about a feminist cover-up you were asking for: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gender-symmetry-with-gramham-Kevan-Method%208-.pdf
I’m impressed with this article, pleasantly surprised and impressed. I didn’t have to go on instant attack mode for once, there is hope. Thanks 🙂
Uhm, actually, they have EVERYTHING to do with it. Did you know what isn’t mentioned in the article? That Erin Pizzey became and MRA because early feminists in Britain would not allow her to share the truth of parity in domestic violence, including murdering her dog?! Feminists are the EXACT reason we see domestic violence as a gendered crime. Patriarchal terrorism, duluth model, etc. Stop pretending they have no part in this. They created it.
Dear feminists replying to this article: First of all, thank you for expressing anger and outrage at Earl’s death. This is an important issue and I’m glad to see it in the mainstream. HOWEVER, please stop distancing feminism from this problem when they played a huge part in CREATING this problem in the first place. Did you know what isn’t mentioned in the article? That Erin Pizzey became an MRA because early feminists in Britain would not allow her to share the truth of parity in domestic violence, including murdering her dog and threatening her so much that she left the country?! Feminists are the EXACT reason we see domestic violence as a gendered crime. The idea of patriarchal terrorism (which is obviously ludicrous, as there is near parity between victims regardless or gender), duluth model used in domestic violence law and services, etc. Stop pretending they have no part in this. They created it. Do your part to dismantle this mistake, but stop pretending feminists played no part in it. The only way you can possible believe that is burying your head in the sand.
Feminists did not create the history of violence and injustice against women. Feminists have sought to correct the imbalance and educate.
If domestic violence is seen as a crime more often perpetrated against women, that’s largely because it is.
It also bears mentioning that men are often reluctant to admit they are the victims of abuse as they fear ridicule (particularly from other men).
Feminists are not to blame.
That’s because there is no imbalance. MEN ARE FORTY PERCENT OF THE VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. Men are also the majority victims of EVERY type of violence except sexual violence. What you’re doing right here is literally what I’m saying feminists do. You’re spreading lies that HARM male victims. Thanks for proving my point. Jesus.
More than 40%, actually, and depending on the study more than 50%
i know this thread is dead and this is an old post, but thank you anyways.
i hope you find great peace in your life.
Funny you leave out that most of the violence men are victims of is from OTHER MEN.
Why do you expect women to fix male on male violence? Why do expect women to build, fund and staff shelters for men? Why can’t men help each other as women have been doing when they saw a lack of services?
If men are so worried about men, then how about MEN do something about it instead of getting mad that women will not do everything for you?
No. Intimate partner violence, or whatever the PC term is these days, is lower amongst men in same sex relationships. Conversely the highest levels of intimate partner violence are amongst women in same sex relationships. The vast majority of male victims of domestic violence are the victims of women.
If you are dragging in other forms of violence it is a red herring, you are ignoring the problem that is being discussed because you think you can win on that point.
For the rest:
“Why do you expect women to fix male on male violence?”
They don’t. Also you are still chasing a red herring.
“Why do expect women to build, fund and staff shelters for men? ”
They don’t. They want access to public funding in the same manner as women (read feminists) have had. Feminists constantly block efforts at both making this a policy issue, let alone a matter of funding.
” Why can’t men help each other as women have been doing when they saw a lack of services?”
You mean as women are doing with government funding? The government funding men’s issues aren’t receiving. That feminists constantly try to block.
You may as well have brought up men not discussing men’s issues so I could point to the Toronto protests.
“If men are so worried about men, then how about MEN do something about it instead of getting mad that women will not do everything for you?”
They say in the comments section of an article about the death of a man trying to do something about this issue to a woman.
So you simply choose to ignore the vast majority of violence against men? Convenient.
” Feminists constantly block efforts at both making this a policy issue, let alone a matter of funding.”
When? Where? You say constantly, so give us 3 examples from the last year. Women’s shelters are constantly asking for and in need of private donations, they are NOT flooded with government money. If you are upset at the government, blame the government, petition the primarily MALE government. Stop blaming feminists for the lack of actions of MEN.
A protest in Toronto, which incidentally was because of ONE MRA man, does not in any way represent millions of feminists in the US. You do know Toronto is in Canada, don’t you?
And good for him for starting a shelter, why don’t more men do it too and why didn’t more men support him and donate to the shelter? While trying to run his shelter, how much experience or help did he work with in order to get non-profit status, donations, tax breaks or to market his cause? Why weren’t men lining up to help him if his mission was so important to millions of men?
Feminists did not kill him, he killed himself.
Actually you’re the opposite of correct. Lesbian relation ships contain the majority of DV, gay male relationships contain the least DV. In heterosexual relationships most DV is reciprocal between both partners, when it is only one directional women are the perpetrators in around 80% of cases.
As to your last comment, “men” aren’t asking “women” to do anything. There are men and women who understand the reality of DV and are demanding the ideological anti-science based way of looking at DV to change. One of the most important figures is Erin Pizzey who started the battered women shelter movement in the UK, she’s been fighting against feminist ideology that says DV is a gendered problem directed toward women and not men, for decades.
Where did I specify domestic relationship violence? Oh right, I never did.
That’s what the whole topic is about, domestic violence. Keep up.
Be A Whole Lot Easier If The Abused Men Would Just Beat The Crap Out OfTheir Abusive Spouse.
Problem is that you get arrested for just defending yourself. Grabbing her wrists to keep her from hitting you will get you thrown in jail.
Depending on whether the area you live in has Primary Aggressor Laws, calling the police on her could get you arrested.
^ This is what feminism looks like.
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My wife used to abuse me. We had a mediation session with her Aunty (a former police woman), mother, and my parents. There Chinese. My Family Australian. During the mediation session it was made very clear that it’s ok for the woman to hit the man.
Later Laws in Australia allow the mother to stay in a free ‘womans shelter’ with our child and they help her hide the child from her grandparents and alleged violent husband. They don’t even allow grandparents to see the child. The womens shelters here and perhaps the whole DV in Aus/Cananda does not show or respect family values and clearly can not have the Children on top of their priorities.
So you are upset at the name…and ignore the actual contents of the act
Only when you are talking about NON domestic violence.
And then they are usually beaten by OTHER MEN.
How is that r;eevant? Most black epople are vcitims of the crimes of other black people. We still have “Black Livs Matter” campagins do we not?
Most white people are victims of white on white crime, when will white people protest that?
Actually thats not true it turns out in modern statistics women are more likely to beat everyone. In fact the least DV occurrences happen in gay male relationships. Could it be that men simply know how to handle problems better than women? More details at 11!
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geezus, after spending right at 20 minutes reading these comments I have had enough. Do you all not see what is going on here? I stepped back from Animal rights advocacy groups for the VERY same reason. In this age of social media and instant membership we see SO damn many times the WAY extreme. I saw grown women and men espousing torture and murder of a 10 year old child whose picture was taken with a deer she took down on a hunt with her father. The same crap I’ve seen with feminism. EXTREME hate for the male of our species and espousing torture and murder of a man and outright bullying of the same because he supported a men’s shelter for DV. It is sickening to watch the disintegration of humanity in these moments. Have we not learned ANYthing from the recent trend of live video suicides? It really kinda makes me glad I am a semi hermit that spends most of her time with her dogs.
When my ex got into drugs, and nearly killed my 6 month old twins, a feminist group paid for her legal fees, spread lies and slander about my being a violent, pedophile, abusive, rapist. They also convinced the court to give the address where i was keeping my children to my ex, after which she put rat poison in hot dogs and tried to poison my dogs. She tried to run me over with a car IN FRONT OF THE COURT HOUSE, and her lawyers argued she was ‘defending herself’…by trying to run me over…while high on meth she smoked in the court house bathroom.
After they lost the case, they continued the slander and defamation. they posted blogs with my picture, spread flyers and posters around my home town, equating me to the likes of Ted Bundy and other famous serial killers. Yes, they put posters of my picture, next to pictures of Ted Bundy and others, and they were allowed to do it.
And when i tried to press charges? ‘There is nothing illegal, this is protected by the first amendment’.
Friend of mine blew his brains out last fall after HIS ex cut the lock on his dogyard, and let a known to be dog aggressive walker hound in with his 8 yr old rescue and his 8 week old puppy. Rescue dog was killed protecting HIS children from the hound. Puppy ended up with one eye being removed, and one leg amputated.
She was charged with…having an expired drivers license when the cops picked her up.
Please tell me how feminists have done something to put an end to this. If a man did this to a woman, there would be riots, there would be protests blocking high ways and ER entrances.
I worked in an emergency room for NINE years. When i was in Philly, a guy came in ELEVEN times with stab wounds. His ‘girlfriend’ always with him. After the 11th time, the doctor asked her to go ask for a nurse, and the guy broke down in tears an admitted she was the one who was stabbing him. And that this time she stabbed him because he was too tired to have sex after work.
Please tell me again the official stance of feminists on whether men can be raped by women? Oh right, its ‘rape is when someone is penetrated.’ And the stand by of course ‘An erection means he wants it.’
I Stand for EQUAL rights, which means ALL THINGS IN EQUALITY. Anything you can do i can do just well, and maybe even better. This applies to all things. Be it working as a CEO for a multi-billion dollar company, or being DRAFTED into military service.
I used to consider myself a feminist. Until they turned on me like a bunch of rabid ferrets, because my drug abusing ex was FAR more important than my kids growing up safe, and happy.
What’s not mentioned is that Mrs. Pizzey attempted to open men’s shelters also, but was all but defeated by feminist organizations that were against that exact thing.
I can’t find the article but I read that he didn’t receive funding because the demand just wasn’t high enough for the government to consider it worthwhile. I mean 20 people in 3 years is very little. A lot of abused men would rather stay with their abuser than even admit to THEMSELVES they victims of such a thing. You can build shelters but if they won’t go… well what then? You need to change attitudes first.